software jobs, PhDs and “over-qualification”
The text below is a response to a discussion over at stackoverflow.com, and summarizes my thoughts in regards to how people with PhDs hunting for software developer jobs should go about getting a good position…enjoy the read !
The PhD sometimes can be a problem for simple programming jobs. Even though you are screaming at your prospective employer, saying “yes I’ve done all the crazy stuff during the PhD, but now just want a job to code to feed my family”, they may not hire you not so much of over-qualification, but rather over-thinking. For basic developer jobs, usually employers look for someone that codes like a robot, and not having any academic questions of whether we should use this or that design for the application etc.
Having been to that exact situation myself – trying to get a plain ol’ developer position but got rejected because I have a PhD, I felt really-really bad (and constantly asking the question: shouldn’t the PhD provide me with all the opportunities?). But I kept searching and found something more suited to my PhD skills, and more intellectually rewarding.
That is both the curse and the advantage of the PhD; it opens you the doors for higher quality jobs, but given not the state of economy, but the state of society – how fast things change and similarly how software comes and goes – companies want the 20 year-olds to code quick and turn out an app with a 6-month lifetime.
But still as other people mentioned in their responses, there are places both in private and government sector that invest in long-term budgeted and well researched software projects. So you should be looking for a place like that, but it takes time; It took 6-8 months for me, almost 10 phones interviews and 3 on-site.
And most important get your ego up. I completely understand how you feel, 6-8 years in graduate school under constant stress torn your ego into to pieces. But once you get through that – let’s say – psychological training, you can stand any stressful deadline, juggle many things in your head from software design to implementation, think more broadly etc. These are qualities which none of the 20-year old developers have. Many employers look for those traits, and again get your ego up, think that after 8 years of graduate school you went through things that few people could stand, and get out there and snatch that job.
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I got a job as a programmer after my PhD and although to be frank it was more scientific programming and algo development than software development. Think about how you can put your PhD to use as a software developer, why you over someone else, about the kind of problems does your experience and knowledge lend itself to solving and addressing. If I am hiring someone, there needs to be a reason why that person is a better candidate. Personally, I believe that the PhD should help you in areas where analytical thinking and complex problem solving are involved, not just implementing ideas.
[...] software jobs, PhDs and “over-qualification” The text below is a response to a discussion over at stackoverflow.com, and summarizes my thoughts in regards to how [...] [...]
Hi there!! Very interesting article as I am on the brink of changing my career! I am unhappy with my current (non-programming) job. Looking back to all I have done I realized that I was the most happy when developing software. Like you I realize that I will be ‘over-qualified’ when looking now for plain programming jobs. So I figured that indeed, as clearly described in your article, I must stand out from the young code monkeys with something they do not have. And I am in the middle of figuring out what that is exactly.
you clearly have no idea of what you are talking about. stop dreaming about you having a phd because you clearly dont have it and neither know what it actually means.
you dont have a phd and search for a job as a code-monkey. so please stick to making websites or whatever you do and stop talking shit.
overdone, you are very smart. What do you do for a living?
We recently hired a PhD on our team. Amongst the devs that interviewed him, we did not think much about the PhD. The guy got the job because of his skill set. However the PhD helped convince the suits that the candidate had credentials.
You know you don’t have to put your PhD on your resume.
After being part of the dot-com bust, I was desperate for any job. A friend of mine managed a pizza shop. I went in for an interview just to “make ends meet.” Sitting next to me was a cordial 35 year old lady, who had been delivering pizzas since she was 18. I had not a snow ball chance in hell. I knew then that I wasn’t going to be out there like Dirty Harry, gunning down the minions, with a pocket full of cash, but I had educated myself into a niche that made me practically useless to 99.9% of all available jobs, even the ones in my field.
I’ve personally done a lot of interviewing. A Master’s degree often conveys quite a bit of transferable knowledge. However, I’ve never seen anyone with a PhD that was remotely related to the job at hand — their degrees tend to be far too focused. A PhD demonstrates dedication and persistence, but not necessarily creativity and quick thinking.
On the other hand, anyone who has started a business or open source project (self-starter, enthusiastic, motivated) gets an immediate +1.
They can be the same person. If you are worried about getting hired, do something that proves you can get things done in under 5 years.
“Having been to that exact situation myself – trying to get a plain ol’ developer position but got rejected because I have a PhD”.
This shows a fair amount of naivette. You most likely got rejected due to not having the skillset required – whether it be your communication or programming skills. Not because you have a PhD.
I think that people with PhD’s feel they are entitled to jobs without being particularly skilled. This may work in most industries, but the IT industry is one of the few where employers tend to ignore level of education and focus instead on ability/experience. (With a few exceptions of course – such as numerical analysis work.)
It’s hard for anyone to get a good programming job – regardless if you have a PhD or not.
thanks everyone for the good comments. I’ve finally got a very good job, which combines lots of programming and hacking, while at the same time is not code monkey-ing, since it involves a lot of research for infrastructure planning, reading and writing tech articles, and great flexibility in design decisions.
While I don’t use much of the things I’ve learned during my PhD (overspecialisation while reading niche scientific papers?), I definitely use a lot the attitudes I’ve gained during graduate school: patience & persistence, strong stomach to deal with problems, thinking outside the box and being organized.
I guess the whole thing with the jobs (especially in a difficult economy like it is right now), needs luck and guts, but one way or another whatever path we took professional life we should accept it for better or worse, and try to use all potential that lies in front of us.
> These are qualities which none of the 20-year old developers have.
You are very sure of that statement. I’ve seen people with PhD that are worth 0 and people without PhD to look up to.
Thanks to views like your, I’ve been personally hit by inverse ageism. Some people seem to look at young people and think: She/he has all of the qualifications, passes all our checks, but she/he CAN’T be that smart at 21!!!!!! Therefore she/he lied.
I am still encountering such prejudice after 4 years(!!!) in my company, where I have already proven to be invaluable, from people that have joined 3 months ago.
And most important of all the PhD should have taught you is to always have an open mind. Your post looks quite opposite, but maybe it’s just an unpolished rant.
The problem with degrees is that most people in software companies don’t have a degree or only a BAA. So minus your “eventual skill-set”, you end up working for/with “uneducated” people”.
I don’t even dare talking about the salary offered.
I am a graduate in Master’s degree. The one thing that drives me here is humiliation.
Don’t compare an unemployed PH D person to a software employee with no degree. Let me put this way if we ask a software employee to alleast pass a B.Sc degree with Maths,Physics,Computers. That’s a three year course.If he passes the exam he will know how much pain it will take to pass 15 subjects in three years but if he fails he will never know how much pain it took for others to pass. Later if we ask him to clear the subjects that he failed. He may clear the subjects in 1 or 2 years or he may quit or he may buy bogus pass certificate. Those who take it seriously considers the 15 subjects as 15 promises. Don’t mix overqualified people with people who don’t have any qualification as employees in an organisation. If they can say that Ph D person don’t have required skill to work for a software company and the reason that he don’t have it is perhaps he is old and over the years he spent energy and time to complete degree after degree and that energy is lost. In other words one can find a 12 year old 5 th class student who is smart enough to outperform a software employee and if he works with him he will definitely feel the humiliation. Don’t push an old man in a boxing ring to fight. That’s why they keep heavy weight and light weight champions. The whole idea is to make an organisation to work with likeminded people with same qualifications, age, thoughts. Others have opinions but we have direction.
I believe their is no harm to hire PhD and higher qualified personal for software development or any other software team. but before taking this decision one has to consider some facts before going so long.
Average age of PhD personals is between 30 to 40 years within these range a person to become a coder or software support engineer. It will take more time to solve simple logical problems then a fresh graduate of age 20 to 25 infect some one discover more problems in that problems or may claim over application architecture.
Usually PhD personal has got good offers from universities and other multinational or governmental organisation on leading post with a very handsome salary package and fringes benefits as well like medical, house and car etc. Their salaries should between 1 lac to 10 lac approximately. Besides this a developer hired on average salary of 10k to 20k without fringes benefits.
The ration of graduates and PhD personal might has ration 1:99 or 2:98 per batch or per year so how the needs of demands could fulfill.
Now suppose a small project of cost 1 million takes average 6 months to completely handover to client successfully. if this project completes within a single PhD resource of salary 1.5 Lac then where company earning goes.
Freshers did not violent over admonishments or abuses of their manager how a PhD personal would feel after that.
A team leader or a manager has got grooming skills while starting from a junior developer and then timely grow to achieve these positions in more then 5 years, now If we hire this qualified guy to a managerial position or team lead position how it would satisfy its subordinates.
Besides all these education and knowledge is priceless and comparing a graduate with a doctoral level personal is useless.
When we comes to search for jobs after finishing some higher qualifications like PhD, it will like a strange world, even a person doesn’t knows to read or write will have a good job, but not for the qualified person. In this situation we should not wait for the suitable job, just hang on some related jobs. Thats what the way to survive. Search jobs on all possible ways. Job portals is one of the best way.